The Streak Continues: 331
Yesterday was a day of crossing things off my long to-do list as two months away from home (but for three days in early December) looms closer and closer…. I did make time for my morning meditation and for an easy one mile swim followed by ten minutes of forced laughter. My mile swim is about 88 lengths of the pool. Uncharacteristically, I had a nasty cramp in my left calf and had to quit and walk the last half of the last lap. You gotta love it.
This blog post, the 331st in a row, took me about 3 1/2 hours to prepare. It was published sometime before 8:30am so that Jim can get the DPP 4 into the BIRDS AS ART Online Store for your ordering convenience.
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The Photographers’ Guide to Canon Digital Photo Professional 4.0 by Arash Hazeghi and Arthur Morris is now available. Click here to order. |
The DPP 4 eGuide (PDF)
BIRDS AS ART is proud to announce the release of The Photographers’ Guide to Canon Digital Photo Professional 4.0 by Arash Hazeghi and Arthur Morris: $40.
Artie first went to DPP because he was not happy with the colors he was getting with 1D X and 5D III images from ACR (Adobe Camera Raw). Though less than intuitive, he found it fast and easy to use once he mastered the basics. He collaborated with Arash Hazeghi on the first DPP RAW Conversion Guide. Do understand that the DPP RAW Conversion Guide details the use of various iterations of DPP 3. He calls those the DPP 3.whatever versions. The latest version is DPP 3.14.41.0.
Some time ago Canon released DPP 4.0, completely and utterly new and different from DPP 3. When it was introduced DPP 4 worked only EOS-1D X, EOS-5D Mark III, and EOS-6D images and that is still the case today. It will not work with RAW files from older Canon digital camera bodies. Both authors are hoping that a new version of DPP 4 that will convert EOS-7D Mark II images will be released soon.
In the meantime, DPP 4 performs superbly with his 1D X and 5D III images. When he first opened DPP 4 he felt as if he were in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 and was being asked to fly it. There were so many tabs and buttons and controls that he simply closed the program. He immediately called Arash and asked him if he wanted to work together on a DPP 4 guide. After 100s of hours of work the guide is now ready to teach you to conveniently and easily use DPP 4 to create the finest possible image files from your 1D X, 5D III, and 6D image files. Basically, Arash sent artie a sophisticated outline that he re-crafted into a clear, concise, easily understood, and easy to follow how-to guide written in the BAA style. Arash created all of the charts, diagrams, and graphics.
His charts with recommendations for both Chrominance and Luminance Noise Reduction values for each of the 3 covered cameras at various ISO settings are alone worth the price of the book. He spent many dozens of hours experimenting with high ISO RAW files and shares his findings with you in the DPP 4 Guide. Folks will surely want to create some sort of easily accessible quick reference on their laptops and home computers.
DPP offers a host of great features some but not all of which are reminiscent of ACR. These include the following: Multi-image display, the extremely valuable Before/after Comparison layout, Highlight/shadow warnings, White Balance, and the eight RAW Conversion tabs that include sliders for Brightness, Highlights, Shadows, Contrast, Hue-Saturation, Color Tone, Sharpness, Noise Reduction, HSL (Hue/Saturation/Luminance), Lens Corrections, and Digital Lens Optimizer among others. We teach you how to best utilize each of those and many more. We share our slightly different DPP workflows and dozens of tips that will simply make your life easier. Arash uses DPP4′s rating system for choosing his keepers while artie continues to rely on BreezeBrowser Pro for that. DPP offers a variety of sorting filters. We explain all of the options. In addition, we teach you how to set your preferences and how to arrange your workspace for the greatest efficiency.
Both authors firmly believe that the manufacturer’s conversion algorithms will always out-perform 2nd party software when it comes to preserving image quality, fine detail, and accurate color rendition.
The authors wish to thank Chuck Westfall and Rudy Winston of Canon USA for their help; they are always available to answer our nit-picking questions. Sincere thanks also to Ken Kovak, Bob Schwartz, Dane Johnson, and John Stuhlmuller for their thoughtful and substantive reviews of late drafts of the DPP 4 manuscript.
You can order your copy of the DPP 4 Guide for $40 through the BAA Online Store by clicking here, by calling Jim or Jen in the office at 863-692-0906 with credit card in hand, by sending us a check made out to “Arthur Morris” or a money order for $40 to BIRDS AS ART, PO Box 7245, Indian Lake Estates, FL 33855, or by by sending a Paypal for $40 to e-mail. IN the latter two instances be sure to note DPP 4 Guide so we know what you are ordering :).
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This image was created at 8:36am on the clear morning of 19 October down by the lake near my home. I used the BLUBB-supported/hand held Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM lens with Internal 1.4x Extender (at 200mm) and a beta version of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II . ISO 400. Evaluative metering at zero: 1/1000 sec. at f/8 in Av mode. AWB. Focus was set with Central sensor Rear Focus/AI Servo AF on the edge of the letter “O” as framed. Click here to see the latest version of the Rear Focus Tutorial. Click on the image to see a larger version. |
Typo Notice
The image above, all three images in fact, were created at ISO 400. Not at ISO 1600 as originally stated. Someone with a decent knowledge of exposure should have caught that…. Why? 1/1000 sec. at f/8 in pretty bright sun at ISO 1600 would have been two stops over.
Creating the Three Images
I set up the tripod and pulled the legs out tight to the tabs. I framed the image with the 7DII at 200mm. I locked down all the tripod head controls and the tripod collar. I created several images at ISO 400 at f/8. Then I traded out the 7D II for the 1D X and made several images at ISO 400 at f/8. Then I traded out the 1D X for the 5D III and made several images at ISO 400 at f/8. Back at the ranch I chose the sharpest image from each set. I converted the 7D II image in DPP v3.14.41.0, I converted the 5DIII and 1D X images in DPP v4.0.
Then I executed my plan for creating the JPEGs for comparison.
I started with the 5D III. I enlarged it to 100% view by clicking twice on the Zoom Tool. I set the crop ratio to 1:1, a perfect square. I started at the uppermost point of the octagon and dragged the crop down to the very edge of what looks like the block letter “D”(but which in reality was the letter “P” and its reflection). I executed the same crop as closely as possible to the 1D X and the 7D II images. Then I set the crop to 550 px by 550 px and cropped each image.
Each JPEG was marginally adjusted for brightness and saturation so that the three were fairly similar.
That is a close as I could come to a fair comparison….
The three JPEGs are presented below labeled A, B, and C. It is your job to let us know which image if any you think has the best image quality and which has the worst. Which if any shows the most fine detail and which shows the least? Which if any image shows the most noise and which shows the least?
I will share my thoughts on the comparative JPEGs and reveal which JPEG was made by which camera here in Wednesday’s blog post.
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Image A |
Image A
Please leave a comment and let us know what you think of the image quality, the fine detail, and the noise levels for Image A as compared to Images B and C. Or, you can simply let us know which camera created A, B, and C by leaving a comment like this:
A: 1D X
B: 7D II
C: 5D III
Please understand that the above is simply an arbitrary representation of what your answer might look like. It might be designed to deceive you. Or not.
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Image B |
Image B
Please leave a comment and let us know what you think of the image quality, the fine detail, and the noise levels for Image B as compared to Images A and C. Or, you can simply let us know which camera created A, B, and C by leaving a comment like this:
A: 1D X
B: 7D II
C: 5D III
Please understand that the above is simply an arbitrary representation of what your answer might look like. It might be designed to deceive you. Or not.
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Image C |
Image C
Please leave a comment and let us know what you think of the image quality, the fine detail, and the noise levels for Image C as compared to Images A and B. Or, you can simply let us know which camera created A, B, and C by leaving a comment like this:
A: 1D X
B: 7D II
C: 5D III
Please understand that the above is simply an arbitrary representation of what your answer might look like. It might be designed to deceive you. Or not.
Great New Used Gear Listings Priced to Sell Instantly
You can see all of the current listings here. If you have e-mailed me about selling used gear on the blog and I dropped the ball, please shoot me an e-mail with the info. Sorry, but I have been swamped :).
Used Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS (Image Stabilizer) USM Lens
Mike Stevens is offering a used Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS (Image Stabilizer) USM lens in like-new condition (used just once) for a ridiculously low $4999. The sale includes the front leather hood, the rear dust cap, the original case, a Wimberley P-50 lens plate, and insured shipping to US addresses only. Your lens will be shipped only after your check clears unless other arrangements are made; Paypal is an option.
Please contact Mike via e-mail, by phone at 951-260-2507, or on his cell at 951-821-1600.
The old five was at one time the world’s most popular telephoto lens. It still makes great images with both TCs.
Used Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS (Image Stabilizer) USM Lens
Mike Stevens is offering a used Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS (Image Stabilizer) USM lens in like-new condition (used just once) for a ridiculously low $7999. The sale includes the front leather hood, the rear dust cap, the original case, a Wimberley P-50 lens plate, and insured shipping to US addresses only. Your lens will be shipped only after your check clears unless other arrangements are made; Paypal is an option.
Please contact Mike via e-mail, by phone at 951-260-2507, or on his cell at 951-821-1600.
The 800 was my go-to super-telephoto lens for about 4 years.
Used EOS-1D Mark IV Digital Camera Body
Multiple IPT veteran and good friend Monte Brown is offering a used EOS-1D Mark IV digital camera body in excellent condition (with about 22,000 shutter actuations) for $2449. The sale includes the charger and an extra battery, the original box, cables, software, manuals, and insured ground shipping to US addresses only. Your camera will be shipped only after your check clears unless other arrangements are made.
Please contact Monte via e-mail or by phone at 765-744-1421 (Eastern time).
Two Mark IVs served as my workhorse bodies for more than three years.
Used Canon EF 100-400mm L IS Zoom Lens
Multiple IPT veteran and good friend Monte Brown is offering a used Used Canon EF 100-400mm IS L zoom lens in very good to excellent condition for only $899. The sale includes both front and rear lens caps, the older-style tough fabric case, and insured ground shipping to US addresses only. Your lens will be shipped only after your check clears unless other arrangements are made.
Please contact Monte via e-mail or by phone at 765-744-1421 (Eastern time).
I used and loved my 100-400 for many years. Monte’s is one of the sharpest copies of this lens that I have ever seen. On a bear boat trip he made dozens of super-sharp Bald Eagle images that amazed everyone in the group.
Used Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS Zoom Lens
Multiple IPT veteran and good friend Monte Brown is offering a used Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS Zoom Lens in very good to excellent condition for only $799. The sale includes both front and rear lens caps, the older-style tough fabric case, the original box, and insured ground shipping to US addresses only. Your lens will be shipped only after your check clears unless other arrangements are made.
Please contact Monte via e-mail or by phone at 765-744-1421 (Eastern time).
I used this lens for about two years. It makes a great lightweight, intermediate telephoto lens that is sharp, easily hand held, and works well with a 1.4X teleconverter. It is great for hand held flight photography and would go great with a 7D II as a starter bird photography lens for folks who work around relatively tame birds.
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Images courtesy of and copyright Captain James Shadle (aka Froggie). All of the images here were created at Alafia Banks. Card creation and design by Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART. |
The Hooptie Deux/Roseate Spoonbills and More Instructional Photo-Tour via pontoon boat. 4 1/2 DAYs: $3200. SUN FEB 22 thru lunch on THUR FEB 26, 2015/Strict Limit: 6 photographers/Sold Out
Sold out. Please e-mail to have your name placed on the waiting list in case of a cancellation. You can see the complete details by scrolling down in the blog post here.
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Typos
In all blog posts and Bulletins, feel free to e-mail or to leave a comment regarding any typos or errors. Just be right :).
Did you shoot all images at 200mm or did you zoomed in to same FOV when using 5D3 and 1DX.
All at 200mm. artie
So this was a kind of reach limited situation. Same crops from same lens mm shooting from same distance.
In such situations, the 7D2 should give the sharpest image due to much more pixels on the object. But now, as we know the results, that was not the case. Are you sure there was no back/front focusing issues involved in the 7D2 image?
Most would not agree that the 7D II would yield the sharpest images. IAC, there are just too many variables. I do believe that all of the images were sharply focused but not of my lenses has been calibrated with the 7D II yet…. (Using Lens Align Mark II.) One of my conclusions was that I love the 7D II images and I would not like them if they were not sharp. There is at least a good chance that both my methodology and my execution were flawed.
I will be sending some 7D III RAW files to Arash Hazeghi so that he can update some of the charts in the new DPP 4 Guide to include values for the 7D II. We will see what he has to say about the 7D II IQ…. artie
So you mean most people do not agree that more pixels on the object gives you a sharper/ more detailed image? I have to disagree.
I’ve done several test between my 7D and 1D4 with same lens mm from same distance, and up to about iso 3200, the 7D (more pixels) wins every time.
Your test indicate that less pixels gives sharper/higher res image.
Why use a crop camera if there is no advantage having more pixels on the bird?
Using liveview AF should eliminate lens calibration needs for such a test.
P
One man’s opinion. I am not sure which side is correct on this argument 🙂 artie
Image quality in order of preference: A, C, B
Fine Detail: A & C equal, B noticeably less sharp at high mag.
Noise: B, A, C
My guess is A:1DX, B:7DII, C:5DIII
I prefer A in terms of color, contrast, and detail. Best overall image makes me think 1DX.
Image C is slightly brighter than the others which makes me guess 5DIII assuming you preserved the slightly brighter imaging of the 5DIII sensor/processor.
Image B seems to have the least noise. If it’s the 7DII, is this because it has smaller pixels and may have been blown up the least to get the same size image as the other two?
Wow, surprising result. I recently bought a 5DIII. Wish I’d waited. Thank you for the the effort and time behind your extensive testing of the 7DII and the thee-camera comparison–highly instructive and useful info.
A: 1D X
B: 7D II
C: 5D III
A. 1D X
B. 7D II
C. 5D III
Image B – appears to be the crop of the 7D II opening photo. I agree with Sarah’s observation of details In the water.
Image A – my guess is 1D X as I need to add exposure compensation. Images are always darker than same settings with 5D III.
Image C – by default, 5D III.
Fyi .. These observations were made based upon Ipad viewing as I am out of town and away from my PC.
Thanks for your comments on DPP4.1 – I’m running Mac OS 10.7 on my iMac and 10.8 on my laptop – DPP 4.1 requires 10.9 or above so I’ll upgrade!
Graham
Thanks for sharing that info. artie
ps: see lots more in Tuesday’s blog post.
C – #1 best image
A – #2 but very close to image C, with C having slightly better contrast to my eyes which might make it appear sharper
B – #3 has slightly less detail, but not by much, and slightly less contrast to my eyes
…. and so I’m guessing the 7D II took image B
Thanks for the great work Artie!
Arthur,
Maybe not the correct place for this query, if so, please answer privately.
Ever since acquiring your “Digital Basics” in 2007, and subsequent updates, I have been VERY happy with BreezeBrowser Pro’s conversion of my 1D3 and 1DX raw files. When touching up was needed, I did it in Photoshop. When you “promoted” DPP early on, I too felt as if I was “trying to fly” something above and beyond me. Can you “encourage” me, in 1000 words or less, to give up BBPro’s raw conversion algorithm in favor of DPP 3 or DPP 4?
/Joel Haas
DPP 4 is far better than BrBr conversions. The resulting IQ is much better and there are many more options. That said, sometimes if it ain’t broke don’t fix it is the best approach :). AKA the soft sell 🙂 artie
So, DPP 4 upcoming version will address 4 cameras namely; 1DX, 5D III, 6D and 7D II. So, far I remember EOS 70D and 700D were released after 6D but didn’t find a place on the latest version of this application !
Great. It seems we have to buy the car in accordance with the wheels !
Three cheers for Canon . . .
Reference DPP 4.1 for 7D2, is it only available in the US,as the canon site here is still pointing me to Dpp 3whatever!
BTW Can’t tell the difference – have Pre ordered a 7D2 and picking it up Thursday!!! Getting excited now!
Graham
On the US website, DPP 4.1 is only showing up if you select Windows 7&8 64-Bit or a couple of the Mac operating systems. 32-Bit Windows systems are only showing latest version of DPP 3.
I am no computer guru but when I went to the 7D II software page it detected mac OS. I downloaded it and it is running on my mac. Wish that I could help more…. a
Just published today and your new eguide might already need an update! Progress is so fast nowadays! 😉
Seriously, do you think an update for the 7D2 will be necessary or not to your new eguide on DPP 4?
Hey Yves, You gotta love it. We may need to make a few small changes. For one, I could not find Preferences under Tools. So I did a search and it popped up but I still do not know where it is located 🙂
I will be on the phone with Arash mainly to discuss sending him lots of 7D II RAW files so that he can add the SH and NR stuff of for the 7D II to the charts So yes, there will be an update at some point. artie
My untrained eye agrees with Bill Richardson with C, A, B in order of preference and I also have no idea about which camera as I have experience with none of them. As a 7D owner you have my attention!
A: 5DIII
B: 1DX
C: 7DII
A has a tad more detail than B but less than C.
C has a tad more noise but also a tad more detail noticed in the chain but also I notice it is a bit brighter as some of the whites are hitting 254.
Artie: I can’t wait to get the 7DII. With all of your research on the Beta version, are you willing to let us know how you set up the various menus of the 7DII for bird photography? I can always use the help.
Thanks again for all of your help.
David Drake
Hi David,
I will be trying to get started on a 7D III User’s Guide fairly soon but I have a ton on my plate. Best for now is to study the image captions and the blog texts carefully; they contain a ton of info, all free. And as I recall will be joining us in Bosque so you will be able to set up your camera exactly like mine. Lastly, there is lots of new stuff on the 7D II that i need to study and learn about…. See you soonly! artie
DPP 4.1 will be supporting the 7D II for launch! http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d_mark_ii?WT.mc_id=C126149#DriversAndSoftware . This is also a major step for the DPP (4.0->4.1) I wonder if everything remains the same. I’d guess that A is the 1DX because of the virtual lack of noise, B is the 5DIII because of the noisiness and lack of sharpness and C is the 7D because of the fine grain noise yet high detail. Funny thing is that A and C are virtually identical in sharpness and I’d be surprised if the detail isn’t raised by putting more pixels on the subject.
1. 7D MK II (I think the best of the group – best noise suppression, best detail)
2. 1DX
3. 5DIII
I shall be purchasing the 7D MK II once I get some debts payed off. I love the 7D Mk I, and have used it for over 4 years.
Typo Notice
The image above, all three images in fact, were created at ISO 400. Not at ISO 1600 as originally stated. Someone with a decent knowledge of exposure should have caught that…. Why? 1/1000 sec. at f/8 in pretty bright sun at ISO 1600 would have been two stops over.
Thanks to Yves for getting me to realize my error. It should not effect folks’ opinions on which image is the cleanest…. artie
A: 7DII
B: 1DX
C: 5DIII (I own this one)
Artie, you’ve done a great deal of work over the past several weeks comparing all these possibilities. Personally, I can’t really see any difference in noise between the three images and I believe A and C are so close to identical that I’d call them equal but I believe B is the less sharp image. I have no clue as to which camera made which image.
Great news, it appears that DPP 4.1.0 now supports 7D MKII!
Yes it is. DPP 4.1. I was promised early notice. I am loving it anyway.. artie
Looks like this is only valid for 64 Bit Windows 7 or 8.
I am downloading the mac OS version to my new macbook as I type….
I wish you would do a test with the current 7D so we can see what the difference is compared to the new one!
C. has much more noise and B has the most detail in the water and as the top photo is from the 7DII and shows the same white in the water I’m going for B as the 7DII.
Wow, that’s an interesting observation, Sarah Sterling. There are faint white stripes in the water to the right of the stop sign in the very first image and also in Image B, but not in images A and C. Have you cracked the code? 🙂
She DID indeed cracked the code! Congrats Sarah!;)
Sarah, Not gonna hapen 🙂 a
I think image A is sharpest, image C next, and image B least sharp, but the differences are so slight that it’s possible to look at different parts of the image and come to different conclusions about sharpness. I don’t see significant noise in any of the three.
A. 7DII
B. 5DII
C: 1DX
I agree with others, that image B looks less sharp. Noise is very low in all, but seems to be “less fine” in C.
NOISE DETAIL QUALITY CAMERA
A 2 2 2 1DX
B 1 3 3 5DMk 111
C 3 1 1 7D Mk 11
Is a 3 the best score or the worst? It would seem best as you have B as the best camera….
Hi Artie, 1 is best and 3 is worst. In my view C is the best camera even though I think there is a bit of noise. PS the headings moved when I posted the original comment!
A: 1DX
B: 7DII
c: 5DIII
Hi, Artie, and thanks. Image B seems less sharp to me and with less detail than images A and C. I can’t see noise in any of them.
By the way, I really like the image, especially the uncropped full version. I like that you took an attempt to make a test of cameras into a really very wonderful image.
First impressions :
1. the BG in C is more noisy than in B which in turn looks a little bit more noisy than in A. Which is coherent with previous tests you realized here.
Second thoughts:
After having looked at 300% on my screen, the reference full frame image which was taken by the 7D2, the stop sign looks more white on it. Based on this, I’d say that image C is NOT the 7D2 because that one looks more yellow to me and the colors look more rich. Thus image C might be the 5DIII.
Moreover, Image C looks a little bit more precise, more fine details in it than B and A being better on that than B. Thus explaining my guesses below.
One overall comment :
At ISO 1600, all three images have an IQ that make them all publishable pictures, no question regarding that IMO. I’d be curious to see the same test at ISO 3200 and ISO 6400 and.. why not? ISO 12,800!
Image A : 1DX (I do own one) my guess
Image B : 7D2 (I WILL own one …very soon!)my guess
Image C : 5DIII – warmer colors – higher contrast – finer details (and I do NOT own one!)
I should have added this :
A VERY HEARTY : THANK YOU! for having done this test!
A: 1DX
B: 7D mark ii
C: 5D mark iii
Full frame is still full frame
A: 5DIII
B: 7DII
C: 1Dx
Arti,
Regarding your new DPP 4 guide. I noted this morning in your discussion about the guide that you have an extensive noise reduction strategy using DPP 4. I recently purchased your Noise Reduction Guide in which you use Neat Image as the NR engine of choice. I have started to use it with success.
Now my little pea brain is getting confused. Why the switch from Neat Image to DPP 4 for NR?
Simple. Arash feels that DPP 4 is better than his old method. Try them both and let us know which you think is better. Be warned: Arash is pretty smart and has a great eye for detail. And even if it is a tie it is better to have it all in one place :).
A: 7DII
B: 1DX
C: 5DIII
I ordered the 7D MII . In Belgium expected in tree weeks . I have the 1Dx and will do the test by my self as soon i have the 7D MII in my own hands !
I see no differents on the 3 pictures above.
A: 1DX
B: 7DII
C: 5DIII
My guess:
C: 1DX
B: 7D II
A: 5D III
Noise seems almost identical to me, so I won’t try to talk about.
In order of preference, I would say C, A, B. I would say C and A are pretty equal but B is a distant third. I have no idea which came from which camera. I am guessing C came from the 7D2 just because I think the prior photos have an appeal to me. Big question is whether they all could be made to look identical with minor tweaking. All 3 are so close that I suspect that is the case. The real contest would be at higher ISOs in lousy light. That is where the differences will show. Thanks for your efforts.
A: 5D III
B: 7D II
C: 1D X
A : 5D III
B : 1DX
C : 7D II
Maybe its my eyes, or maybe its my monitor (likely both), but these look indistinguishable to me.
A: 1DX
B: 5dIII
C: 7DII
I’d love to be wrong on this 🙂
A: 1DX
B: 5DIII
C: 7DII I hope!
Just my guess.
A: 5DIII
B: 1DX
C: 7DII
My guess based on my perception of detail and noise.
I see a little more detail in A and C, making me think that B is the 7D2.